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Post by Personnel Representative on Nov 30, 2011 4:12:46 GMT -5
I do NOT agree with this assessment. video.nhl.com/videocenter/console?catid=60&id=138334- the head was NOT targeted (donno what Shanny sees there) - the injury was NOT severe (player returned not long after and scored game winner, if I recall correctly) - the shooting of the puck DID drastically affect his body position (his head was no longer blocked by his shoulder and forearm) - Letang looked in Max's direction immediately prior to the hit, thus its reasonable to assume he saw him coming. 3 games is bullshit, and further proof the NHL has its penis in Pittsburgh (and Crosby's) mouth. |
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Post by xx - Former Flyers - xx on Nov 30, 2011 9:43:28 GMT -5
I'm not a player, but I think we're asking an awful lot of them. He wasn't going for the head, and while it may be his responsibility to hit the body, Letang made his decision- he could have taken the hit better too.
I'd like to know exactly how fast these guys are going- I know from playing other sports that once both players are committed it is really difficult to change even small details. On the other-hand maybe that's exactly what we should be expecting from our professionals.
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Post by Toronto Maple Leafs on Nov 30, 2011 10:35:31 GMT -5
It's not an illegal hit. If you watch it, Letang is square to Pacioretty prior to the shot (North-South hit, which is legal) and is turned on his follow through for the shot.
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Post by XX - Former Sens - XX on Nov 30, 2011 21:43:57 GMT -5
I still believe that Paccioretty elbowed Letang at a vulnerable state. You may disagree, but I think this was a suspendable hit
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Post by Pittsburgh Penguins on Nov 30, 2011 22:26:17 GMT -5
Considering he could have taken the body and chose to shift his weight to take the head instead, I think 3 games was very fair. Good thing it was his first time. If a repeat offender does the same thing it will be close to 10games
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Post by Pittsburgh Penguins on Nov 30, 2011 22:27:03 GMT -5
and player is still out from the hit, Maybe it should have 5 or 6 games
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Post by Personnel Representative on Nov 30, 2011 23:05:41 GMT -5
He didn't choose the head, he was clearly lined up with his side until Letang elected to shoot, which shifted his body angle enough that he got it head-first, instead of at the side. Shanahan practically outlines all this and the clip seems to back up Max's claim that he made eye contact with Letang just before the hit too, as Kris looks over in his direction. No shot, no head contact, no broken nose. Would be considered a high risk move by Letang if he played for any other team. But playing for Bettman's personal love-child of a franchise, he is safe from error for a while.
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Post by Pittsburgh Penguins on Nov 30, 2011 23:54:31 GMT -5
as it showed in slow motion, nothing shifted what so ever. Shanahan's clip shows that the The head does not move at all. The only thing that changed was that Pacioretty shifted his weight to his other leg and a result he didn't hit the body but only the head. If he would just skated right through him he would have never made contact with the head. All players know they will be hit and sometimes that is a price you are willing to pay, your just not willing to take an illegal hit to the head.
Penguins the love child LOL. That is too funny. I believe the NHL is based out of Toronto and been kissing the Montreal Canadiens asses since the beginning of time. Bettman knows the money is the States and as sson as the Canadien dollar dies again all the small market Canadien teams will be in trouble once again.
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Post by Personnel Representative on Dec 1, 2011 2:45:34 GMT -5
The slow motion replay shows that at the beginning, when he is carrying the puck, Letang's arms, shoulders, and elbows are all the central point of Maxy-Boy's path. Once he shoots, all of those parts move out of the path and all that is left is Letang's head. Plus, as I said, we can speculate, but i think its hard to argue Letang did not see Pacioretty coming, as his head was in Max's direction a second before he put it down to shoot.
And yes, the Pens are Bettman's poster boys for "How a team can be an epic financial failure one year and win the cup the next, and therefore we should keep teams in the middle of the fucking desert." As a result, you have to keep those fans happy. He has mentioned them several times when describing his reluctance to move PHX.
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Post by Pittsburgh Penguins on Dec 1, 2011 13:02:55 GMT -5
It shows in the Video that his head never moved. He obviously saw Pacioretty coming, but that still doesn;t mean you expect to hit in the head.. Off course the shoulder may move but he still could have hit the body. The problem is from the begiining of time in hockey people have targeted the head. They see an opportunity to take somebodies head off and they pick up speed to do so. I think these are the big hits that really need to be removed from the game as there is definitly intent to injure on those hits. It has been since that players are actually thinking and not making those hits this year. Unfortunatl for Letang, Pacioretty hasen't learned that lesson yet. I would have thought he would have been one of the first to learn that lesson but I guess maybe that station took a bigger piece of him then we thought. If Pacioretty haden't shifted his weight he would have gone straight through his body, by shifting his weight he went right through the head. Only good thing is next time it will be 10 games.
Obviously the PIttsburgh market is good one, the arena has been sold out ever since. It was a market that needed a new arena to survive though. Even with sellouts the team would have moved without a new arena. But in Pittsburgh it is now soldout every night and unlike in Detroit where a sell out means 5,000 empty seats ever night as the season ticket holder can't even give away there tickets. PIttsburgh is packed every night.
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Post by Dallas Stars on Dec 1, 2011 16:23:09 GMT -5
PR's conspiracy theories LOL
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Post by Pittsburgh Penguins on Dec 1, 2011 21:02:03 GMT -5
PR's conspiracy theories LOL LOL. Yes it helps them sleep at night to know they have reason why there teams can't win. To each his own I guess. |
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Post by Personnel Representative on Dec 1, 2011 23:49:54 GMT -5
I don't have a "team", I just enjoy good hockey league-wide.
And for the record, I agree with about 95% of Shanahan's decisions to this point. And above all else I agree with the transparency he has brought to the position he holds. it's great for the game. But after hearing his reasoning, I do not feel he justified it, based on the clips he showed and the claims he made. Shanahan himself disagreed with half of what you wrote there Pens ("He obviously saw Pacioretty coming").
Now when you consider Pacioretty's perspective:
1. Opposing player incoming, trying to shoot on net.
2. Sees player look at him
3. He lines up the hit
4. Player shoots puck, again, reshifting where his centre of balance, and equilibrium are, and removing all protective extremities from the known incoming hit, essentially presenting his face in the line of the check.
5. Opposing player gets hurt because he chose to take the shot
So if he chose to NOT take the shot, he would have been fine.
Tho i rarely, if ever, agree with the new Don Cherry, the moral of this debacle is kind of scary, and coincides with a rant he had a while back:
you change the game to let guys do stuff like shoot on your goalie, and prevent opposing players from hitting them, and you will get shittier hits, if any. And the game will suffer. Guys will ease off on their hits, and eventually, there will be no need for checking at all in the game, because everyone is afraid of getting suspended.
The idea of hitting and fights in hockey brings a unique "intimidation" and psychological factor to the game that makes it unique among pro sports. If players are not afraid to take risks (like shoot when they might be hit) you have completely paralyzed that aspect of the game. So why not take hitting out entirely?
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Post by Pittsburgh Penguins on Dec 2, 2011 12:21:45 GMT -5
Yes, again I disagree. The player did not shift at all. Doesn't matter how many times you watch even in super slow motion. He doesn't move, the only person that moved was Pacioretty and he shifted weight to hit the head. Players still even though they expecet to get hit should not expect an illegal hit to the head.
Since the begging of time players have looking for that guy crossing middle not to just hit but to hurt him. That in the game has to change. Gladly so far this year we have seen players turn down that option on many occations. Unfortunalty there are still those fans around that want that crippling hit. I for one am very glad to see the game change this way. To me those hits should result in assault charges as the player only aim is to hurt the player. In Pacioretty's place he could have continued the way he was and skated right through Letangs body. He chose to shift his weight and target the head. Players need to learn to hit the body and target the body, the fact that players continue to target the head or leave there feet to hit somebody tells me there is definitly intent to injure there.
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Post by Personnel Representative on Dec 2, 2011 16:57:08 GMT -5
I agree with the theory of your point here: cheap headshots and headhunting should be stopped and stopped hard. But I think the problem-hits are not what happened here. PAciotetty did not make any particular motion indicating he was trying to injure Letang. He has no history of headhunting.
Lucic's hit on Miller was what I would definitely call a problem hit. It was a definite hit on a definitely prone player, with full intent and a follow through. It resulted in a more serious injury than a broken nose. When you compare the two incidents, I think its a no-brainer which one SHOULD recieve a bigger punishment. But in both cases, the Shan seems to have intercoursed the canine as the phrase goes.
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Post by Pittsburgh Penguins on Dec 2, 2011 17:47:59 GMT -5
The point of Pacioretty not having a history is a lost one. That was brought up NHL.com and followed by a tape of about 20 hits of Pacioretty leaving his feet of other dangerous attempts at hits. At first I thought the hit on Letang woudn't warrant a suspension, until I saw the tape. He could have skated right through him easily, but he shifted his weight and ended up hitting the head. I think Shanahan's explanation was more an attempt to educate the rest of the league as too what he and the NHL expect a player to do in the situation. That being to take the body. You can still hit but try and take the body first and foremost.
I definitley think the Lucic hit was a bad one. My main beef with that one was Lucic even extended his arms through Miller as he hit him. If it was accidental contact, that woudn't have happened.
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Post by Boston Bruins on Dec 2, 2011 19:04:02 GMT -5
The point of Pacioretty not having a history is a lost one. That was brought up NHL.com and followed by a tape of about 20 hits of Pacioretty leaving his feet of other dangerous attempts at hits. At first I thought the hit on Letang woudn't warrant a suspension, until I saw the tape. He could have skated right through him easily, but he shifted his weight and ended up hitting the head. I think Shanahan's explanation was more an attempt to educate the rest of the league as too what he and the NHL expect a player to do in the situation. That being to take the body. You can still hit but try and take the body first and foremost. I definitley think the Lucic hit was a bad one. My main beef with that one was Lucic even extended his arms through Miller as he hit him. If it was accidental contact, that woudn't have happened. Agree with this. I understand people are upset that Pacioretty was suspended with the biggest excuse being "he didn't mean to hit Letang in the head". I believe he didn't mean to do it but never-the-less you have to call it and suspend him. How many guys, with or without histories of head shots, will come out after the game saying he "didn't mean to". It is like the delay of game penalty for flipping the puck over the glass, only a small fraction actually mean to do it but if you don't call them all then people will do it and get away with it. |
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Post by xx - Former Blue Jackers - xx on Dec 2, 2011 20:43:43 GMT -5
Please note....I am a MASSIVE HABS FAN
Pacioretty deserved a suspention. 3 games was a bit high for a 1st suspention. Those who feel he has a history...sorry regardless of what he has actually done means jack unless the league diciplined him for it (that's the way it is right or wrong)
I don't feel he aimed for a head shot, but I do feel he could have eased off or even threw out his hip.
My biggest problem with this is that Shanny has been inconsistent. Non-suspensions for Malone on Campoli, Myers on Zubrus are two very similar examples of similar hits but no punishment.
Unless the league is serious about hits to the head (which I truly feel they should be) they need to suspend all head shots or don't suspend any....but you need to be consistent
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Post by Vancouver Canucks on Dec 3, 2011 17:22:31 GMT -5
I agree with you Jackets I also think Pacioretty got suspended because It was Kris Letang of the Pittsburgh Penguins no denying that.
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Post by Anaheim Ducks on Dec 3, 2011 19:12:05 GMT -5
I agree with you Jackets I also think Pacioretty got suspended because It was Kris Letang of the Pittsburgh Penguins no denying that. I think he got suspended because it is because of him that there is this much scrutiny with headshots and then he goes and does EXACTLY what happened to him. |
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