vs. PR

[Personnel Representative]

Use this thread to criticise, complain, or vent about the PR.


There's lots of back-alley trash talk, and c-box banter about contracts, NTCs, etc.

Since I welcome any feedback, and am always interested in defending my conteroviersial stances, i strongly encourange you to post complaints here.

ANYTHING to do with PR.

Popular topics include:
- reply times
- NTCs/NMCs
- extensions
- UFAs
- entry level contracts (and the rules surrounding them)

Now that I have posted this, I predict no one will say a damned word, as is typically the case in the past when I ask you to vent your criticism towards me for consideration.

Hey, if you want to criticize secretly as the Trade Whisperer, feel free to do that too.

Just let me know your beef, rather than whining behind my back, as I am pretty positive many of you do, based on the counter offers i have been sending out

[Nashville Predators]

Alight, let's go nuts.

These are just some things I like/dont like. Most things are good, maybe a few adjustments.

Reply times- Yes it would be great if the time between negotiations was faster, there's not a lot patience in these leagues but you're relatively good for it. Maybe a little quicker would be nice. 
Adjustment- Maybe if you haven't answered in 3 days or more a person can request you look and reply while you're on and you can't whine about it. 

Clauses- They shouldn't be given out like candy(not saying they are), I think you're good with that. 
Waiving, if a player just signed one, it should not be waived for at least a few months of sims(Ex, If I wanted to move Radulov he would not be interested in waiving until at least 3 months in and the team/he is doing incredibly shitty.)
A player that had one for awhile and he has been on the team for a bit and the team makes an effort to accommodate then that player should be very inclined to waive(why stay if the team doesn't want you? Or they're  losing ice time) (If Clowe had one when he was traded. My team is looking at a bit of transition after two failed years. Try something new for the player and team)  If there is a 'lifer' they would be very very reluctant to waive(Brodeur, St.Louis, Lidstrom, etc.) on that note certain players would be very willing to take a pay cut to help the team. Not all but those 'lifers' for sure. 
Maybe once in a while players request a trade, if that doesn't happen already. 

Extensions- I think you're requesting a bit too much for certain players. The points aren't coming in bunches anymore and there's a lot of B players(~50 points) if all those players gettin about 50points request 6m+ that's excessive IMO. 

UFA- Been a while since some signings  but I remember it was a relatively easy process.   

ELC - My opinions are about the same as in the other thread. 
Removing bonuses was smart, not clear enough on the ruling or monitoring. 
Reducing the term to 2 years is silly, IMO. ELC are a big part of a successful team in a cap league. 
Increasing the cap hit to 2.25 is kinda high but understandable. But they shouldn't be gifted to that salary based on draft position, should be play. 
I think 3 years $1.0m for 1st rounders and $.85m for 2nd rounders is good. 
If they produce out their minds(Filippi) there first contract should be high, no doubt. If you come in and play great for a season or two, definitely deserve that raise. But right off the bat, that's too much. 

That good? Lol

[Deleted]

I love everything about you

[Personnel Representative]

Mar 27, 2012 13:24:10 GMT -5 Nashville Predators said:

Alight, let's go nuts.

Good man.

Mar 27, 2012 13:24:10 GMT -5 Nashville Predators said:

Reply times- Yes it would be great if the time between negotiations was faster, there's not a lot patience in these leagues but you're relatively good for it. Maybe a little quicker would be nice. 

This is probably my slowest year ever, because its been my busiest (in real life). In terms of general reply time, there's not much I can do on that front I'm afraid. Weekends are the only time that are actually bad for PM build up and lack of replies, because I usually do ManNHL stuff daily, for 3-4 hours. So when weekend rolls around, I take at least a day off. When people reply to all of my friday afternoon PMs, and it takes me until Monday to get to them, it feels like forever for them, I'm sure. But that said, this last weekend , and the next couple, I have prior engagements, so the likelihood of doing stuff then is slim. Light PR duties probably, like NTCs or whatever, but probably not signings, UFA or whatever we are at at those times. Just a heads up to all.

Mar 27, 2012 13:24:10 GMT -5 Nashville Predators said:

Adjustment- Maybe if you haven't answered in 3 days or more a person can request you look and reply while you're on and you can't whine about it. 

Though I like feedback and dislike having to flat-out say no, this I cannot accomodate. If I let people PM me about whether I got PMs (which we used to do) it literally takes twice as long to do everything, because I have twice as many PMs, and most are completly meaningless PMs. One thing I do do, which should address the "did you get my PM?" issue, is after I do a batch, I usually announce that I have cleared my inbox and if people have not recieved a reply, then they should resend.

Mar 27, 2012 13:24:10 GMT -5 Nashville Predators said:

Clauses- They shouldn't be given out like candy(not saying they are), I think you're good with that. 

Rarely, if ever, do I request these. If you are a STRONG Cup-contending team, and guys are taking a small pay cut to stick around, they might. Or franchise players probably will (Lidstrom, Brodeur, etc). But most of the time, they are offered. I won't refuse them when they are offered. Nor do I often "require" them when negotiating. I might mention them, but its your job to negotiate them out of a contract. Not mine.

Mar 27, 2012 13:24:10 GMT -5 Nashville Predators said:

Waiving, if a player just signed one, it should not be waived for at least a few months of sims(Ex, If I wanted to move Radulov he would not be interested in waiving until at least 3 months in and the team/he is doing incredibly shitty.)
A player that had one for awhile and he has been on the team for a bit and the team makes an effort to accommodate then that player should be very inclined to waive(why stay if the team doesn't want you? Or they're  losing ice time) (If Clowe had one when he was traded. My team is looking at a bit of transition after two failed years. Try something new for the player and team)  If there is a 'lifer' they would be very very reluctant to waive(Brodeur, St.Louis, Lidstrom, etc.) on that note certain players would be very willing to take a pay cut to help the team. Not all but those 'lifers' for sure. 
Maybe once in a while players request a trade, if that doesn't happen already. 

Absolutely. Feedback received on this one. I'll be on it this upcoming season. That said, EVERYONE, your job is to NOT be a dick just because someone refuses to waive to play for Islanders (i.e. Panthers and the McCabe situation - TWICE).

Mar 27, 2012 13:24:10 GMT -5 Nashville Predators said:

Extensions- I think you're requesting a bit too much for certain players. The points aren't coming in bunches anymore and there's a lot of B players(~50 points) if all those players gettin about 50points request 6m+ that's excessive IMO. 

I agree, in theory. However, 50 points puts you within 8 of Crosby, who makes 8.5M. What 8 points is worth? 4M?

Also, from an administrative perspective, I can tell you Mikey and I are working with the simulator to get that crap fixed, because I promise all of you, that makes my life a lot more difficult that it does yours. I HATE having to deal with low-production seasons. It fucks EVERYTHING up. But we'll be working to fix that.

That being said, if you sign a producer (40+ point guy) he will still be set up to continue being a producer. But we are just looking to make the spread between the elite and the average a bit wider.

This season though, it cannot be helped. And no, people, I am not going to convert all contracts league-wide to 1 year, 1M deals to accommodate this potential change.

Mar 27, 2012 13:24:10 GMT -5 Nashville Predators said:

I think 3 years $1.0m for 1st rounders and $.85m for 2nd rounders is good. 

I can't disagree more. And as much as I try, I just can not get behind a 3 year, 1M deal. When every player in the first round last year had about a 1M signing bonus, ON TOP of a 1M salary, (not to mention another 4-7M in performance bonuses) its just ridiculous to take away the bonuses and not give something back to the players. All I asked for for the players in return was 1 year off an entry level deal.

I think a) that's damn fair for both parties, and
b) they are still RFAs after that contract. so you can still keep them if you want them. That's your business.

Mar 27, 2012 13:24:10 GMT -5 Nashville Predators said:

That good? Lol

very much. Thank you!

[Boston Bruins]

yeah I hope we can improve the gap between elites and 3rd liners, too many B and C players making over 5M, I get the feeling there are going to be a lot of bad contracts coming up. I mean look at the potential free agent list, while really cool that there are so many elite players available, I hardly call that realistic.

Also one thing I would like to comment on is some of the NTC waives. I do like the idea that if YOU signed them to the clause, they should be much harder to waive (unless the team that signed them was expected to be good but then fell out of the playoff race or something), if they didn't sign the clause maybe be more flexible especially if they are going to a good team or somewhere where they will get top line minutes, etc.

But the biggest thing I would avoid is thinking that a certain player would never want to play in a certain city or when asking for a list only agreeing to waive to popular hockey markets.

Example: Gretzky refuses to waive to go to Phoenix because he hates the heat or wants to play in a bigger market.

It is completely unfair to GMs with lower market teams when there is nothing they can do about it. I know this doesn't involve me and you probably never even did that before but I thought I would mention it.

[Nashville Predators]

This is probably my slowest year ever, because its been my busiest (in real life). In terms of general reply time, there's not much I can do on that front I'm afraid. Weekends are the only time that are actually bad for PM build up and lack of replies, because I usually do ManNHL stuff daily, for 3-4 hours. So when weekend rolls around, I take at least a day off. When people reply to all of my friday afternoon PMs, and it takes me until Monday to get to them, it feels like forever for them, I'm sure. But that said, this last weekend , and the next couple, I have prior engagements, so the likelihood of doing stuff then is slim. Light PR duties probably, like NTCs or whatever, but probably not signings, UFA or whatever we are at at those times. Just a heads up to all.

All understandable, and like I said we've been good this year too. A little slower, but like you said, prior commitments.

You're still relatively quick.

Though I like feedback and dislike having to flat-out say no, this I cannot accomodate. If I let people PM me about whether I got PMs (which we used to do) it literally takes twice as long to do everything, because I have twice as many PMs, and most are completly meaningless PMs. One thing I do do, which should address the "did you get my PM?" issue, is after I do a batch, I usually announce that I have cleared my inbox and if people have not recieved a reply, then they should resend.

Meant in a Cbox form. You've got your rule of no asking "hey, can you check your PMs" Understandable, just some would like to know if they will get a response that evening or what not - Definitely agree, getting bombarded with PMs that just ask something simple is a time waster.

Not a big issue, you've been good with replying and saying when you can can't reply.

Rarely, if ever, do I request these. If you are a STRONG Cup-contending team, and guys are taking a small pay cut to stick around, they might. Or franchise players probably will (Lidstrom, Brodeur, etc). But most of the time, they are offered. I won't refuse them when they are offered. Nor do I often "require" them when negotiating. I might mention them, but its your job to negotiate them out of a contract. Not mine.

Yeah, like I said, you've been good with 'em.

Absolutely. Feedback received on this one. I'll be on it this upcoming season. That said, EVERYONE, your job is to NOT be a dick just because someone refuses to waive to play for Islanders (i.e. Panthers and the McCabe situation - TWICE).

For sure, people can't whine and complain. But, I think they can make an 'appeal' maybe with a write up. Something to try and solve the issue(if there is one).

I agree, in theory. However, 50 points puts you within 8 of Crosby, who makes 8.5M. What 8 points is worth? 4M?

Also, from an administrative perspective, I can tell you Mikey and I are working with the simulator to get that crap fixed, because I promise all of you, that makes my life a lot more difficult that it does yours. I HATE having to deal with low-production seasons. It fucks EVERYTHING up. But we'll be working to fix that.

That being said, if you sign a producer (40+ point guy) he will still be set up to continue being a producer. But we are just looking to make the spread between the elite and the average a bit wider.

This season though, it cannot be helped. And no, people, I am not going to convert all contracts league-wide to 1 year, 1M deals to accommodate this potential change.

To me Crosby's salary should be irrelevant, for the most part. He isn't among the top producers here(at least not last season) Taking real contracts in contrast to a sim league production year is where things get tricky and messy.

And with the engine changing it could be good or bad, we'll just have to wait.

I can't disagree more. And as much as I try, I just can not get behind a 3 year, 1M deal. When every player in the first round last year had about a 1M signing bonus, ON TOP of a 1M salary, (not to mention another 4-7M in performance bonuses) its just ridiculous to take away the bonuses and not give something back to the players. All I asked for for the players in return was 1 year off an entry level deal.

I think a) that's damn fair for both parties, and
b) they are still RFAs after that contract. so you can still keep them if you want them. That's your business.

Last year the signing bonuses were far too high, imo. - I don't know all the ins and outs for real ELC, they're tricky, so I can't say much on it. But from what I gather is they're typically ~ $3.8M for those top players with the $0.9M base salary. Having some reach up to $7M in bonuses seemed ridiculous.

Taking 1 year off is kind of sucky though, for GMs, no GM would want that. They're losing one year where a rookie could potentially be an all-star for a cheap contract.
RFA or not, they're RFA regardless of 2 or 3 years, no? They have to pay for those potential bargain deals, making them, well not a bargain anymore.

Losing that year can result in some $5m+ contracts and as a result of that one less year it potentially shrinks a teams chance to contend, if they need to release or trade certain assets to hold on to that RFA. Where if they had an extra year, that money can be used for keeping/acquire(UFA) an asset(s) to contend while that RFA is under contract and on that 'bargain' contract.

There's also development. Some players, most actually, don't play in the NHL in their first year. Say they join in their 2nd year, under this new rule, they're a RFA at the end of ONE NHL season. Potentially no NHL experience in some cases if a team is deep enough.
In that one year a player can over produce, we're unsure if the player was a fluke and be a one hit wonder or he's going to excel after their first year in the NHL. Removing that 3rd year screws that up is most cases, the player might have been able to get more of he was in the excel category or a team might have re-signed him for way too much if he was a one hit wonder. It's a small sample size to re-sign a player on.

That to me is why three years is kind of a necessity. - I do not agree with the $2.5m if it's three years though, they're rookies, they shouldn't be guaranteed that kind of money even if they don't play. They'll make their money in the next contract(s).

very much. Thank you!

Cheers!

[Boston Bruins]

Mar 27, 2012 15:31:39 GMT -5 Nashville Predators said:

Meant in a Cbox form. You've got your rule of no asking "hey, can you check your PMs" Understandable, just some would like to know if they will get a response that evening or what not - Definitely agree, getting bombarded with PMs that just ask something simple is a time waster.

Not a big issue, you've been good with replying and saying when you can can't reply.

we could have PR send a mass PM when he has deleted his inbox. That way if you did not get a reply to a PM you sent you know 100% to send it again. It also gives PR an excuse to freak out on anybody for asking "did you read my PM yet?" either in PM or c-box form.

[Toronto Maple Leafs]

The fact is most first round players in the real NHL get that kind of bonus. It sounds ridiculous, and it kind of is, but they have the right to demand up to 8.55M in bonuses over three years. We've dropped that to 4.5M JUST for the top 5 picks every year. We cut it in half.

Real Life Contracts:

Gabriel Landeskog - COL - 3.575 per season, 3 years.
Devante Smith-Pelly (2nd round pick) - ANA - 0.870 per season, pretty damn close to what we're doing in the difference, but second rounders get a tad of a bump, and first rounders get OVER 1M CUT!
Marcus Foligno - BUF - 0.900 per season, 4th round selection.
Jeff Skinner - CAR - 1.400, 7th overall selection. No one thought he would be immediate impact player in the NHL. Still near 1.5M for his first years.
Ryan Johansen - CBJ - 1.945 per season, 4th overall pick.
Taylor Hall - EDM - 3.750
Eberle - 1.158, 22nd overall, if he had known he would be that good, he would have received a higher contract.
Erik Gudbranson, a defenceman, 3.200 - higher than Luke Schenn's first contract.

So you can see the high end prospects, we're cutting them down, the lower end go up a tad, but it's not enough to disrupt or destroy all the bonuses we took away from the high end. It's not shuffling money from one side to the other, it's the complete elimination of it, and by doing it this way, especially with the three years, IT'S MORE REALISTIC! Becuase every team in the league has to go through it. If you get a high pick, you have to pay him high dollars and HOPE he pans out.

[Dallas Stars]

The ELC's should definitely be 3 years. The current money for it makes sense though 2.5M is the max a rookie can earn. The money demands for 50 points is screwed up. Too high. Everything else is solid though. good job PR hopefully simming is more realistic next season I guess

[Boston Bruins]

Mar 27, 2012 21:31:02 GMT -5 Dallas Stars said:

The ELC's should definitely be 3 years. The current money for it makes sense though 2.5M is the max a rookie can earn.

Disagree here. I know 3 years is better for the GMs but without bonuses it isn't fair to the players drafted. Unless PR wants to only bring in bonuses for the draftees and count them against the cap (whether they earn the bonuses or not).

Which would mean for top 5 picks they can and most likely would have a cap hit of $3.5M+, and the amounts would drop depending on the range:

6-10: 3.0M-3.5M
11-20: 2.0M-3.0M
21-30: 1.0M-2.0M

I think this would hurt people more having to waive someone just to give a top pick a tryout.

[Dallas Stars]

The bonuses almost never come to fruition though. I signed Campbell, Glennie, Couturier, and RNH to many bonuses (like 5 bonuses for each one) but the only bonus that actually counted was the 0.4M signing bonus for Couturier. Everyone else remained at 875K because they never fulfilled the requirements needed to earn bonus money.

[Toronto Maple Leafs]

@dallas: Which is unlike the NHL. They don't sign like point-total bonuses, they sign signing bonuses. It's way different and more on how it's unrealistic here.

[Boston Bruins]

Mar 27, 2012 22:01:32 GMT -5 Dallas Stars said:

The bonuses almost never come to fruition though. I signed Campbell, Glennie, Couturier, and RNH to many bonuses (like 5 bonuses for each one) but the only bonus that actually counted was the 0.4M signing bonus for Couturier. Everyone else remained at 875K because they never fulfilled the requirements needed to earn bonus money.

which isn't realistic though, those bonuses should count against the cap for all 3 years. I don't see the point in getting rid of the bonuses and have a 3 year ELC.

Besides if your player didn't develop enough to earn top minutes you re-sign him to a 2 year, 2 way contract and your better off. Or he played great and you sign him to a 1-4 year contract worth 3M+. Which saves you cap in years 1 and 2, costs more in year 3 (maybe), and probably less in years 4+ since he will not be as developed in year 2 that he would be in year 3.

I still think the trade off is more than fair and makes everything 1000X easier.

[Personnel Representative]

Mar 27, 2012 14:47:57 GMT -5 Boston Bruins said:

It is completely unfair to GMs with lower market teams when there is nothing they can do about it. I know this doesn't involve me and you probably never even did that before but I thought I would mention it.

Yeah, with the exception of the Islanders, I don't believe I have done that. And the Islanders issue is moreso because they are not in the position the players original team was, in terms of standings and quality.

[Personnel Representative]

Mar 27, 2012 15:31:39 GMT -5 Nashville Predators said:

Meant in a Cbox form.

Sure. People can do that. But most of the time during extension/FA season, if I am online, I am working in my inbox and don't see the cbox until after i reply to all PMs anyways, so it might be pointless. But either way, people can do that.

Mar 27, 2012 15:31:39 GMT -5 Nashville Predators said:

For sure, people can't whine and complain. But, I think they can make an 'appeal' maybe with a write up. Something to try and solve the issue(if there is one).

People do, and people can. It rarely makes a difference, but I guess it technically doesn;t hurt, unless you put up a huge, 50-PM fight about it. But yes by all means if you have more information to add to a waive request feel free.

Mar 27, 2012 15:31:39 GMT -5 Nashville Predators said:

To me Crosby's salary should be irrelevant,

I am rarely the one who brings up other people's contracts. GMs amost always say "well I am paying ___ this much, so I am not going higher than that on this guy" - as soon as you guys do that, I'm gonna start citing league-precedents. I try not to do it, but if you go there, I will too.

Mar 27, 2012 15:31:39 GMT -5 Nashville Predators said:

Taking real contracts in contrast to a sim league production year is where things get tricky and messy.

Crosby is on a ManNHL contract, not his real life one.

Mar 27, 2012 15:31:39 GMT -5 Nashville Predators said:

Last year the signing bonuses were far too high, imo. [/qupte]
Mike implimented it and I am pretty sure it was the same as real life. It's like, 8M MAXIMUM over the 3 years. No one was going to ever make 7M a year. There was a max-during-the-term amount that could not be exceeded. It probably worked out to less than the 3.8M a year you mentioned. But with the options now posted I think this issue was resolved, was it not?

Mar 27, 2012 15:31:39 GMT -5 Nashville Predators said:

RFA or not, they're RFA regardless of 2 or 3 years, no? They have to pay for those potential bargain deals, making them, well not a bargain anymore.

RFA means they can go to arbitration if it comes to it. There's A LOT of power in that for the team.

Mar 27, 2012 15:31:39 GMT -5 Nashville Predators said:

That to me is why three years is kind of a necessity. - I do not agree with the $2.5m if it's three years though, they're rookies, they shouldn't be guaranteed that kind of money even if they don't play. They'll make their money in the next contract(s).

The 2.5M is incredibly fair based on the bonuses that are NOT being included. If we are talking real life, I tihnk its incredibly unlikely that this year Yakupov will be signing a contract with no bonuses at all. Again, you guys win this one. I compromised a lot here. 2 years at 1M with NO threat of bonuses is a damned steal!