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Post by Personnel Representative on Jul 22, 2012 0:17:40 GMT -5
This is a great example of how you clowns drive me nuts.
I receive this PM:
Greetings to you PR
Your client was traded to Vancouver last off-season for a 2nd round pick, Tampa had giving up on him because of his ability to not produce but Ryan Malone proved his critics wrong when he came to Vancouver. He has just experienced the best season of his career offensively playing along his fellow american Ryan Kesler and Team mate Alex Burrows on the 2nd line. We would of also made the playoffs but injuries cost us that chance. Ryan Malone Record his Career best 29 goals , 20 assists , 49 points with a +2. He beat the likes of Rick Nash and Patrick kane in points. We would like to retain
his services. Malone deserves a raise what number do you guys have in mind ?
No salary is mentioned, so what do you expect to receive as a reply? The lowest possible amount the guy will sign for? Come on now, people...come on now.
So I reply with this, basically a random semi-inflated, semi-ballpark contract I more or less pulled out of my ass. Just to get the bloody negotiations started, since I am busy, busy, busy:
4 years, 6M. NMC
I come on a few hours later, and without any further contact, negotiation, or discussion from Vancouver, I read this in the C-Box:
Ryan Malone wants 6M dollars after a 49 point season with 29 goals and 20 assists is he worthy ? Wanna see what you guys think
Okay...
a) That is NOT what Malone "wants", that is where he will start negotiations if you give him a blank slate. If you give someone a blank contract, tell them to just insert the amount they want and sign on the dotted line, ya think they're gonna play for $5 a year? Come on now...
b) Negotiations are expected to be confidential. You would not like me running around telling other teams that one of your players isn't going to sign with you but they will sign with them. Or asking other teams how much they would pay for a pending free agent before deciding if they will sign with you. This is shady business here.
I think you idiots get caught up in this whole "PR demands too much" shit and forget that I negotiate salary. I don't dictate it.
As a result of the above example, Malone will not be signing in Vancouver, so don't offer too much for him. You can have him for free on UFA.
;D
Sincerely and Lovingly,
Your Friendly Neighbourhood PR
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Post by Vancouver Canucks on Jul 22, 2012 0:51:24 GMT -5
Why are you making a big deal about this ? Are your Saturday nights that boring .... I also said in the C'box that I have a couple free agents in mind but I want to see if they are resigned before I do Anything with Malone. You just ignore that. Since ManNHL is about Realism PR tell me about a NHL scenario which leaked contract info led to a player telling a team that he isn't interested anymore because Bob Mckenzie got info and tweeted it and now everybody knows this is his asking price. It doesn't happen ... I didn't even post full contract info all I said was 6M... But alright whatever helps you sleep at night lol
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Post by Personnel Representative on Jul 22, 2012 1:02:16 GMT -5
Why are you making a big deal about this ? Are your Saturday nights that boring .... I also said in the C'box that I have a couple free agents in mind but I want to see if they are resigned before I do Anything with Malone. You just ignore that. Since ManNHL is about Realism PR tell me about a NHL scenario which leaked contract info led to a player telling a team that he isn't interested anymore because Bob Mckenzie got info and tweeted it and now everybody knows this is his asking price. It doesn't happen ... I didn't even post full contract info all I said was 6M... But alright whatever helps you sleep at night lol If Mike Gillis went on TSN and did a live interview and said "This player wants 6M a year. Do you think he is worth that" before even negotiating a SINGLE round of contracts, yes, yes that would cause a stir. In terms of this "my saturday night" business, I was coming on here to do negotiations. Anytime someone does something stupid to slow down those negotiations (like this shit, or Dallas trying to trade guys he offered for), I warn the rest of the league that that means I will be ignoring these negotiations, or moving them to the back of the line. I don't have time to be asked what a guy wants, then whined at publicly, without you taking 4 seconds of effort/time to counter that offer. |
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Post by Vancouver Canucks on Jul 22, 2012 1:34:00 GMT -5
Instead of wasting time on this you could of just sent me a quick message saying that you don't appreciate me bringing up contract negotiations in public . Malone will reconsider re-signing with this team. take this as a warning. Simple as that but instead you post this because you want some ManNHL drama
You did send me a pm but all it said was this .
"Since Vancouver has leaked confidential contract negotiation information, Malone is no longer interested in signing in Vancouver."
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Post by Toronto Maple Leafs on Jul 22, 2012 4:02:46 GMT -5
While I get what both sides think about this, this was never posted in a thread, it was mentioned in the cbox, and not to cause even more of a stir or anything, PR has said it before that anything mentioned in the cbox is essentially invisible to the players, but in a thread is considered to be public. So, technically, Canucks didn't do anything wrong aside from be terrible at negotiations. While some GMs feel PR has demanded too much for certain players, again it's your job to make sure you get a contract you feel is appropriate for your team. Malone starting at 6M for nearly 50PTS is pretty accurate, especially as a starting point. As a starting point, that is expected to go down. I'm pretty much positive that Ryan Malone with 50pts could have landed himself a "prove-it" one-year deal at even as low as 5.25M which is a respectful raise and the chance to see if Malone is the pre-50PTS players (comparative to real-life 65-70pt) or the real deal. Secondly, as a PR, he has to do what's best for his client. Hitting 50pts on the 2nd line is fucking impressive considering Phil Kessel hit 58PTS playing 80 games right up front and center on my team. So maybe Malone starts wondering how well he would do playing first line minutes elsewhere for a team that feels it isn't necessary to have a one-year "prove-it" contract.
So, yeah, my problem in this has absolutely nothing to do with the cbox. That's the equivalent of Chuck Fletcher asking Cliff Fletcher if Mikko Koivu is worth 7M. It was a question to his peers. It's not tampering because the information was provided by the GM of the very team that provided the information. It's technically invisible because it was "said" in the c-box and not a thread. But it's downright purely poor negotiation skills on behalf of a GM who either thought he could have had an edge by asking where the player wanted to begin (and why would the player ever begin low?) or never really had the cap space or interest to re-sign him and wanted a quick answer to determine if his rights should be dealt with enough time for another team to have a chance at him.
So, while I don't agree with PR's decision to sever negotiations because it was mentioned in the cbox where shit is supposed to be "fakely invisible" to players, I also understand he is already receiving upwards of 200 pms just on re-signings as everyone panics about signing their players (especially after I posted the potential free agents list) only to come on and see on more than one occasion that efforts he spent more than just a few minutes considering a counter-offer for each one may have been wasted minutes.
Case in point - if you're just curious where a player stands, just ask him that. PR may be a negotiating machine, but he's also a fucking human. You can be straight up with him and say "yo, just curious what ballpark this player is looking at. I'm lacking cap space (or roster space, or living-space for the player to take up room in your roster thread), but hoping I can something done and need to see where he stands to begin negotiations."
Plain and fucking simple. Case in point - Malkin. I had zero cap space. Malkin wanted lots of money. I traded him to Caps and they won the damn cup. Am I upset at that? Nope.
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Post by Toronto Maple Leafs on Jul 22, 2012 4:39:54 GMT -5
Also wanted to quickly mention that this was also posted in the trash talk section where things are also fair game to discuss - even rules can be broken here.
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Post by Personnel Representative on Jul 22, 2012 6:33:34 GMT -5
I don't recall ever saying things were outright invisible to players (or their agents) if it was posted in the C-Box. In fact, lots of times I have approached teams saying "___ has heard he is in trade talks, blah, blah blah". as a result of CBox shit. I think I have even killed a deal or two involving NMCs, knowing a NTC player would not go to the team that was being negotiated with, in order to save everyone time.
I have always said that if you want something to be "unseen" by the players, you need to "OTR" that shit. Nothing "OTR" is ever held against you.
And once again, this all ties into the bigger issue of all you maggot-brained little twerp-shits going on and on about what players "want" and essentially spreading false rumours. You all are positive you know how badly I am out to screw you, but you could not be more wrong. Wanna know the secret behind the curtain? Each fucking offseason I sit down for about 1-3 hours, figure out how the best players in the league are doing, set up a salary structure that would allow ANY team to sign the top 4-5 players in the LEAGUE and the top goalie while EASILY be under cap. If you can't put that team together and fill your team with useless bodies, that's your fault; not mine. Stop trying to blame me for "salary problems" when the majority of you just make 100 assumptions and go from those.
Further example - last years open market UFA. Lots of guys would have signed any descent contract (2-3M for 40 point scorers) but received NO offers because everyone presumed they know everything about everything. Stop worrying about my job and do yours.
Lastly, I don't think anyone has actually sat down with the numbers as long as I have, trying to figure out a way to make this fucked-up production make sense in terms of salaries. There is no sensible arc to production (real NHL has a range of about 0-120 points, we have about 0-60). This means either we balance cap by lowering cap to about 30M (then people with Ovechkin's 9M pre-existing contract are fucked), or we do it this way, where you suck it up, and pay for any and all producers, since season after season I have been assured "next year, production will go up".
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Post by Nashville Predators on Jul 22, 2012 12:27:36 GMT -5
Not reading all the replies, but to the initial question of is Malone worth $6m a season? No, he is not.
But I can't blame the PR when the team never started with a contract offer, what would you have him reply? "Yes, I like Vancouver and I had a good year"
Gotta toss some term and $$ out there when negotiating .
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Post by Pittsburgh Penguins on Jul 22, 2012 13:15:51 GMT -5
PR isn't going to start with something you want right away. I can't believe he ven answered. I would have laughed at the opening PM and deleted it. It doesn't follow protical in anyway and is a complete joke.
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Post by St. Louis Blues on Jul 22, 2012 14:12:11 GMT -5
I like Malone  |
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