Salary and PRs Team

[Personnel Representative]

People (especially Edmonton) keep on and on and on me about skewed salaries. We know this is a slightly skewed league compared to real life, and we've told you the reasons for that. But I want you to consider the following team. I built this team ENTIRELY based on what you COULD get the following players to sign for based on production IN THIS LEAGUE.





Some of these salaries are inflated even. Pretty much every 4th liner and my 5th and 6th D are all "overpaid". As is my goaltending. But with GOOD negotiating, this is what you can ice for 72M.

If you build your team around this pay structure (7.5M first liners, 4M, 2nd liners, 2M 3rd liners, etc) you will be under cap and you no longer have to bitch at me becuase you have a 4.5M player playing 4th line. If you have a 4th liner being paid 4M, that is your problem, not mine. His production scale would imply he should be higher up the roster, but again - your business, not mine.

Let the backlash begin...NOW!

[XX - Former Oilers - XX]

Please note.... NEW EDMONTON IS THE WHINY BITCH...

Not the SUPER AWESOME OLD EDMONTON THAT EVERYONE LOVED!!! SPECIALLY PITTSBURGH!!!

[Toronto Maple Leafs]

Looks fair to me, but I'm 20M under the cap and should potentially fair better than other teams as well.

[Dallas Stars]

lol a Dman with 40 points won't get 3M. 3M get's you Dmen that put up 30 points. I even had to give Philip Larsen more than 3M for 28 points just because he wasn't over 35. If they're 25 or less they'll cost way more. 40 points Dmen always get around 4M+ and most people have 3rd line Dmen who are actually productive and put up 20+ points so they'll likely request 2M each...
And people would also want better goalies than Brent Johnson starting in net so that's another 4-6M in net

[Personnel Representative]

K, Dallas, you can blindly argue all you want, but here's the deal.

1) I put this together using the same document I use to negotiate contracts with you guys. Every single contract on the above list COULD have been negotiated to the amounts in the above example.

2) I put it together based on performance. Johnson performs like a starter. If you want names, you can pay BIG bucks for names on UFA. If you want a good team, you can pay LOW bucks on UFA. Johnson did better than Steve Mason, Kari Lehtonen, Cam Ward, Cory Schneider, Craig Anderson, Bobrovsky, Rask, Turco, Markstrom, Backstrom, hell even TIm Thomas for Christ sakes - the list goes on and on and on. I gave QUALITY in this example. Not names. By extension, you very well could have signed any of the above goalies for that contract. But I chose the best one that I KNEW would sign for 3M or less.

3) If "D-men always get around 4 M" its because you guys are paying to keep them. I am not going to sit and tell you how to do your job any more than I did above. I can guarentee you I would not have published the above example if it was not 100% true. It took way too long to do just to fabricate a lie.

4) Again, the lower examples (4th line, and such) are high. They would probably sign for 1M. Or you can use your entry level guys here and save even MORE money. Load that into D or goal.

5) The only job you GMs have is to figure out how to ice a superstar team. I just did it for you. You may now never again bitch about salary in this league.

Final Thought

YOU CAN PUT THIS TEAM ON THE ICE FOR THIS SALARY IF YOU ARE SMART WITH YOUR TEAM AND NEGOTIATE PROPERLY.

You can argue this fact all you want, but in the end, it is an absolute, 100% fact.

[Edmonton Oilers]

Aug 30, 2012 13:18:37 GMT -5 XX - Former Oilers - XX said:

Please note.... NEW EDMONTON IS THE WHINY BITCH...

Not the SUPER AWESOME OLD EDMONTON THAT EVERYONE LOVED!!! SPECIALLY PITTSBURGH!!!

Don't you mean SUPER SHITTY??!!! This team was a fucking mess when I took it over. You were over cap and trying to hide it... YOU SUCK! End of story.


As for PR's structure, I'm not in opposed to certain players excelling or what have you, and I DO, in fact, agree with your model, on principle...

HOWEVER... I have 2 points here:

1) As GMs, there's always the "players I like" factor, that you seem to fail to realize. Granted, mine are likely different that most GMs cuz I like a certain style of player as oppose to all "superstars". All GM's are different. For me personally, I really like Alberta players and I like to have hometown, home province/state players on my teams, no matter whether I'm the Oilers or whatever team I have. I just feel it's important to have that "home" feeling with my teams I manage.

2) There seems to be no distinction between "lighting it up in the minors" and "lighting it up with the big clubs" in the NHL; it appears to be all the same to you when negotiating contracts.

For example, I believe my player Keaton Ellerby's current contract is his 2nd contract ever in this league, at $4.85M. Now, I'm not sure what he did previously before I acquired him last season, but currently and also when I acquired him, he was a 2nd D pairing player.

By your own model, he should be making no more that $3M to possibly $3.5M, yet his performance, whether it was at either the minors or NHL level, somehow dictated he should be making $4.85M. Now, I get over paying a little for players you like and players you want to keep, that's fine... but over $1.5M, is excessive.

My 2nd example is Taylor Chorney. Yes, I'm using my team as a reference cuz it's what I know. Chorney was waived by the previous GM and sent to the minors. Chorney absolutely lit it up in the minors and was likely the one of, if not the best, D in the minors this past season. Maybe he was waived cuz of his salary, but, to keep him, so I could put him on my active roster for this season, I had to fork out $4M for a 3rd pairing D that lit it up in the minor and had a good 15 game stretch run.

How is that right? That's my only question. Because based on your little chart up there, I'm seeing on par players with the 2 I just mentioned, and the players you listed are only making $3M, but mine are making $4M-4.85M.

Now, you can pass the buck and say "Oh well, that what was agreed to, so that's not my problem." When actually it is your problem, because you're the one asking for these ridiculous contracts and expect us not to be worried that these players will walk if we don't give it to them.

Based on your own model up there, your scale that you work off of right now for your contracts is wrong. If this is the way we're supposed to work our teams, then the scale on contracts should reflect that, not you just adding another $2M in a counter offer cuz you feel like it!

I get you're "getting the best value for the player" and all that jazz, but if your model up there is any indication, you need to figure out why our contracts are so inflated, not the other way around.

[Personnel Representative]

I shall address your points.

1) I don;t see your point. Think this doesn't happen in real life? You like a guy, you pay him to keep him. Same with home town discounts. Those happen (here and inreal life), but are not reflected in my above example.

2) I just BARELY take minors into account when the guy has played NHL games. If he has played 1 NHL game, I'll take a longer look at his minor stats, but if he has 7-10, I don't even usually check them.

I also don't ask much at all for guys who have spent ALL season in the minors. So that point is simply misinformed, and incorrect.

You keep using examples from your team, and you and I discussed this to no end here and on MSN. You accepted my first counter offers. When you do that, YOU LOSE. Every time. Your contracts are in no way typical of "SMART" or "PROPERLY NEGOTIATED" contracts I mention above, in bold, below my example.

Anything carrying over from previous GM is simply the risk you take when signing ANY multi-year contract. Guy might perform worth his 6M, he might not. Think Washington wouldn't like to have half their 10M back they paid Ovechkin last season?

[Edmonton Oilers]

Aug 31, 2012 21:04:06 GMT -5 Personnel Representative said:

I shall address your points.

1) I don;t see your point. Think this doesn't happen in real life? You like a guy, you pay him to keep him. Same with home town discounts. Those happen (here and inreal life), but are not reflected in my above example.

2) I just BARELY take minors into account when the guy has played NHL games. If he has played 1 NHL game, I'll take a longer look at his minor stats, but if he has 7-10, I don't even usually check them.

I also don't ask much at all for guys who have spent ALL season in the minors. So that point is simply misinformed, and incorrect.

You keep using examples from your team, and you and I discussed this to no end here and on MSN. You accepted my first counter offers. When you do that, YOU LOSE. Every time. Your contracts are in no way typical of "SMART" or "PROPERLY NEGOTIATED" contracts I mention above, in bold, below my example.

Anything carrying over from previous GM is simply the risk you take when signing ANY multi-year contract. Guy might perform worth his 6M, he might not. Think Washington wouldn't like to have half their 10M back they paid Ovechkin last season?

1) Fair Enough... just needed to be said.

2) I call bullshit... Cuz in our negotiations, you made Chorney's minor league stats more valid than they should have been in your counter offer. Justified or not, you did it. Then went further to say that 9 points in 15 games constituted you making a 105% increase to my proposal in your counter proposal. Negotiating is one thing... but adding 105% to your price point on a player, after a team already offered near, around or even over the player's asking price, that's retarded. The idea, if a player wants to play with said team, is to come to a resolution that's beneficial to both parties, and making a counter proposal at 105% above the the players price point, is insulting... not only to the GMs, but also makes the player look like a money grubbing piece of donkey shit... which is NOT always the case. Some players, yes, but not EVERY PLAYER beyond RFA!!!

All our "negotiating" tactic does is make it even MORE difficult than it already is, to sign our star players when the time comes because a player that SHOULD be making $2.5M-$3M is making $4M-$5M and drives up the price on all other players above him, which put your little chart up in price more and more every season.

I get the "realism" of it, but if you keep on like this, everyone's going to be having cap problems within the next 2 years BEFORE you want to have to raise the cap again... That's just the fact.

[Personnel Representative]

People often talk about players being money grubbing jack-offs. They aren't. They hire agents to be money-grubbing jack-offs on their behalf. EVERY SINGLE ONE. The exceptions are guys like Eric Lindros and Martin Brodeur. And after Quebec fiasco, do people not still thing Lindros is just simply a jack-off his whole NHL career anyways?

I cannot help what you accept. I can only help what I ask in a counter offer. Regardless of what I ask, its your job to bring that down. You know this now, but you cannot fault me for you being new and inexperienced with a negotiating PR. Everyone has recieved a counter from me at some point that made them say "WHAT?! ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?!" Your job always has been, and always will be, to make that turn into a "Fine. THAT I can work with." Or, trade the asset for something you can work with. Or, even better, let the asset go to UFA, and offer him LESS than your original offer, and you may even get him for LESS than what he countered for. It happens every year. Guys over-estimate their UFA market value.

And as for what guys SHOULD be making, that is not for you to decide. It's for open market and arbitration to decide. I decide the minimum guys will sign for, and how to go about boosting that as high as I can. That's my job. Yours is to put a winning team on the ice. Not to sign everyone you like and lose year after year.


And cap issues over 2 years? You are mistaken. League-wide production doesn't double for everyone every damned year. If a guy doesn't produce, his value goes down. And its your job, again, to make sure it goes down, if he deserves it. If you have to play hard ball and wait until he hits UFA, your business. Mine is to pinch every penny.

But you, Edmonton, cannot say I ever demanded a contract, or that I ever told you someone would leave your team if you did not give in to their demands. So, as far as I am concerned, you still haven't played the game long enough to know what guys SHOULD be making. Or what I SHOULD be counter-offering with. Talk to Anahiem or old Philly about how to do a negotiation. Hell, Anaheim and I are STILL in negotiations on some guys for Christ sake. And so far, compared to my intitial counter (had he accepted that), its saved him almost 2M.